Thursday 21 March 2013

Why won't DWP REALLY meet Spartacus?

Any of you who just watched the car-crash that was Esther McVey trying to undermine the credibility of the Spartacus network, might like to see the quote that upset ministers so much, they refuse to meet us and treat us like aggressive radicals.

The quote, picked out  from 100s of 1000s of words laid bare over the last 3 years. You can decide for yourselves if you think it justifies DWP not meeting leading disability campaigners.

"The WCA is a statement of political desperation. The process is reminiscent of the medical tribunals that returned shell shocked and badly wounded soldiers to duty in the first world war or the ‘KV-machine’, the medical commission the Nazis used in the second world war to play down wounds so that soldiers could be reclassified ‘fit for the Eastern front".
It is from a foreword to this report : by Peter Beresford OBE, BA Hons, PhD, AcSS, FRSA, Dip WPProfessor of Social Policy, Brunel University


  1. I'm just curious as to who said that, and when. And the context.

  2. McVey's weakness as a speaker & MP will serve only to open this debate up further. Take heart - instead of the organ grinder ( Hoban ) they sent in the monkey ( McVey ). McVey was weak on content, excuses & delivery. Rest assured this matter will return to haunt McVey....

  3. I have just watched the debate, Esther McVey should be ashamed of herself. I hope Michael Meacher will not let this matter end with such a sorry excuse. The fact that parliament was so deserted is also a massive cause for concern, it is as if none of them care!

    1. I completely agree with you, MPs appear to be completely unbothered and unmoved .

  4. quote was actually by Professor Peter Beresford OBE, BA Hons, PhD, AcSS, FRSA Dip WP Professor of Social Policy Brunel University....thanks to Judy for finding it

    1. Yeah, I just searched, that quote is from the guest foreword of the "People's Review of the WCA" report. Either mendacity or idiocy from McVey.

  5. Think Michael Meacher will be like a dog with a bone now and IDS, Hoban & McVey will have to meet with Spartacus.... wonder if they will do 'who has the shortest straw'?

  6. I have just posted this on Sue's blog which first told us the story, as I was too early to post it here:

    "Well, I've kicked my bowl of popcorn clear across the room in my frustration! I wasn't a bit surprised though to find that neither IDS nor Mark Hoban were present for the Adjournement Debate.

    The ministers seem to have scraped a hole in the bottom of their barrel looking for excuses. As Michael Meacher said, they are 'running frit', and I reckon it's because they know Spartacus has called their bluff before, and will probably do so again. And they will do so from the high ground which they still hold, unlike the blokes in the barrel!"

  7. The chamber will have been deserted because it's an adjournment debate - a debate in the time slot that serious debates are not happening during because people have to eat at some point.

  8. that's fair comment if you have any knowledge of history. 'Shell-shocked' soldiers suffered unimaginable cruelty and if they deserted due to faer when they returned to the front they were shot for cowardice. Point is no-one can be 'returned to work' if subjected to cruelty and fear. I don't disagree it's good to have a job just these so-called methods. Euthanasia next?

  9. I'm pretty sure that regardless of which Party was in power if the problems with WCA were still the same then the Spartacus Report would still have been written and the fight for better treatment by the DWP would still be going on as it is now.

  10. Sue are these the kind of people you are campaigning for?? The right to fags and booze??

    ESA endgame?? You said it our work wont be over until the whole benefits charade/farce is put to rest once and for all.

    Support for welfare reform and cuts has never been higher. Its only a matter of time.

    1. Oh, for crying out loud! You clearly have no concept of what #Spartacus is about. Why not try reading something more even-handed (or possibly more of Sue's blog) before attempting to inflame matters. All you've achieved is to make yourself look foolish and ignorant.

    2. It's a regular astro-turfer on salary using a bot, don't be suckered in.

    3. dear dailmail troll.. please learn to read the posts before expressing the dailybailes drivel

    4. This troll is not a UK citizen, and is working to undermine our efforts to fight for social justice. He is not even one person, but part of a team of agents charged with undermining popular protest. I have witnessed this approach on several forums ever since 9/11 when it became necessary for the Americans to ram their foreign policy (or the barrels of their guns) down the mouths of everyone on the planet. Our enemy is devious and manipulative ... truly evil ... utterly contemptible, whether they be politicians, or CIA agents like this troll.

      The news that they will not meet Spartacus is heartening, because that means they are becoming frightened of us. The know that in challenging us in honest debate, or over facts, they will lose.

  11. I can't say I was impressed by the performance of someone who is in a Ministerial post?
    Even if it was a mess that they took over then it gave them even more chance to show their own superior skills at an early stage? they preferred to just try and bury it?

    I can't see why their can't be a formal investigation, we had what 3 plus on phone hacking but on this?
    It might be time to break and have food but the chamber was as empty for the budget debate so they had adequate time to eat?
    I would have thought that all of the speakers on the 17 January should have made an effort to be present, if I was an MP at that debate I would have wanted to be there today. Those are the standards I would work by.
    Thankfully Meacher seems to be of that ilk.
    As someone trying to recover from Complex PTSD and 3 strokes ..I have only just finished filling in my 1st ESA form and frankly I am re-traumatised..the hyperarousal, panic attacks are already back, from the stress, the body just kicks back into its previous state. I have been through tribunal etc before so I am finding it difficult to stay calm.
    I feel more isolated than ever before, I feel unsafe in our present society and its view of us a disabled I was even verbally abused by food delivery person this week!
    Being so early in this process comment on the process so far. The DWP letter was scarey saying you will get a call in next two weeks, but at least the style of it was clear and non threatening, my call from DWP was polite very supportive, I have personally found telephone DWP staff very helpful.

    In contrast the ATOS letter style and approach is threatening IMHO..akin to letters I once had when in debt at beggining of disabilty journey?

    It quotes laws and threatens the withdrawal of benefit if not completed by set date but then trims more time off by saying you need to leave 'few' days for it to reach them.
    Yes it nows says you can send medical documents but then says 'do not ' send medical statements but doesn't really explain what they are..just left me wondering was I sposed to get these from my GP?

    It is the first disability form I can remember receiving without a guidance note booklet?
    I did also receive a follow up letter about 10 days before my cut off date again somewhat threatening.
    The form in its size seems to suggest that it is not really that serious and leaves very little room for you to actually fill it in.
    Then on the back you get fairly skimpy information on fact you may be called for assessment but considering their emphasis on you doing things by a very specific time scale you have nothing from them on theirs.
    The whole tone is very controlling, very cold, it gives you little sense that what comes next will be any better?

    1. How disgusting and soul destroying that the chamber was empty. They know about the desperation and anguish ( celtic suffer). It really makes one question Labour's commitment. There can't be anything more important than this to keep them away. I am not a negative person, but we facing a struggle akin to the US Civil Rights movement.
      I really do believe direct action is necessary.
      Politicians might engage with yourself now and then Sue, but I know from experience that 99.9 per cent of us are completely ignored. The more we struggle, write, beg, the more cavalier they are; confident they can ignore us.
      Sue, why do you disregard the coalition of resistance and the possible Peoples Assembly? If most people affected by welfare reform became involved in any way they could, we wouldn't be sidelined.
      Why is everyone so cowed and apathetic?
      I think Labour are determined in future that
      the Welfare budget will be permanently leaner,
      less significant than those of education etc.
      which has the aspirational tag it wishes to brandish. I don't think enough of us have got the message yet. There aren't enough Labour members who fundamentally want a welfare system that truly meets needs.
      I don't think we should ditch Labour completely
      and opt for the outer regions - how many fringe
      movements have failed alone? But I think the
      Peoples Assembly could be the vanguard for a
      broader movement incorporating all the other
      groups - UK Uncut etc. Some Labour members are getting involved.

    2. Someone who claims to be an ESA decision maker in my local area wrote this as part of a post:

      "other evidence can be taken into account - either medical notes, GP statements or evidence gathered by phone. Point is, few claimants actually provide additional evidence at the initial stage & rely on it appeal. Some claimant support organisations actively encourage this approach... I know not why."

      I've just filled out my ESA50 and encountered the very confusing part where it says both to include medical evidence and NOT to include medical statements. It is baffling and my carer, who was filling the form on my behalf, was confused too.
      I wonder how many sick and disabled people dont include medical evidence with their ESA because they think theyre not supposed to and then end up having that go against them? How many have no idea what they are supposed to be doing including at what stage medical evidence is supposed to be submitted?
      Do we include it with the form when it says not to? Do we send it seperately to the DWP and hope it will be included? Do we take it to the WCA and hope the assessor will look at it? Or do we end up using it at appeal because we've had no idea it could be used earlier?

    3. Sorry this a long one brevity isn't my fortee.if I wait to write succinctly I may never say it..I am taking the risk to put this here because I am thankful for this blog and I believe in its author sincerity, clarity and integrity. Thank you again Sue. it seems i have to post this in chunks..
      My local councils Welfare Rights team which very few even know exists told me they could only offer me brief guidance to fill the form in over the phone, as their policy was to concentrate their time on helping with appeals..the conversation also seemed to convey that I should be prepared for the long haul and appeal was practically inevitable whatever you did..heartening..they did send me a copy of the Disability Rights information which I didn't find very clear or I went with Benefit and Works guidelines at least from those I could understand what the questions were potentially actually asking and how my disability related to the question.
      I have seen different views on short and sweet or war and peace in filling in the form,I wanted to go short and sweet with a bit added but my anxiety led to war and peace:-) I found myself in same situation as in assessments for Mental health services just drivelling on just disclosing and disclosing because you don't know what to say to get the help you need ..desperate to find out 'if' there is a magic open sesame word, because logically you feel there must be one.
      I did manage to get a Mental Health Advocate to help fill in the form but I got so distressed we didn't get as much done as I had hoped . Part of my condition and I guess me as a person is to keep trying to move forward and see the positives even v small ones 'I' still need to beleive that I have some kind of working/contributing future ahead of me, so filling in these forms and focusing on what I can't do I find particularly distressing.
      I think one of the things I find particularly scary about the new system even though it is promoting the idea that there is a way back into working/contributing is that because it still seems to function under an assumption that we have to be caught out as liars, or ATOS have to view us all as scroungers first before they start to see us us as anything different. Maybe ATOS were caught out but if they were then it was the original brief from the 'contractor' that is the real problem. It would be interesting to see what the orginal terms were for the tender for this assessment job? The structure itself seems to be based primarily on speed of throughput..and as Meacher said yesterday if the process was changed to was it Harrington's? approach the success rate of correct assessment rose to even as high as 100% .
      If the assessments were fair and ‘constructive’ they could be so much more helpful to the person being assessed for so many reasons.

    4. Part 2.I feel we have to start from the basic point that each disabled person has a very individual footprint and things are pretty complex for a lot of people. We need to understand Disability so much more and have greater information and awareness of the impact of acquired disability. Most things take a lot longer to fix 'if' they can be fixed and adjusted to than we want to accept when you first get hit with disability. I can only speak as someone with acquired disability. I knew I was struggling with my MH but I kept going somehow then the 1st stroke hit and wham my life was turned upside down and inside out. You don't just face dealing with that.. you face job loss, financial loss, debt , loss of your home, total resetting of personal relationships and in many cases loss of them, the medical system.. do you get right medical help and in right time and in right way, can you access any support , are you ready to contact a charity with specialised knowledge, can you deal with what the whole new life map ahead could be - it is such an onslaught to the senses and the system so much stress and pressure plus the illness and disabilty on top. There is a list of what are the key stressors in life and ones you need to take care of how you deal with them to keep your moving house, bereavement, divorce , debt etc but acquired disability and major illness can tick all of those boxes at the same time!
      A GP if you are lucky will see you regularly and say it is going to take time but patience along with fear and adjustment to this huge batch of changes isn't a good bedfellow:-)
      What | wanted then was someone who could help me create a possible potentially realistic roadmap for a way forward..and help me when I hit humps and how to overcome them. I gather there is a post in NHS called a REHAB Consultant.
      I would have loved to have seen one a - REHAB Consultant . There used to work skills retraining centres with industrial Psychologists attached . REHAB in this country is practically non-existent except for some specific disabilities and will be generally focused around physio? I cried so often during the Para Olympics when I heard so much of thanks for ‘the great team around me to help me achieve this’..well this simple Joe Bloggs would have liked would, would still like even a sniff at such a thing.

    5. I went on an Expert Patient Programme through NH s and found it very useful but felt frustrated we weren’t then linked up /networked better local ly and more importantly nationally so I could continue to learn how to manage my set of disabilities and move forward.
      I am extremely greatful for the benefit I do get, I finally got DLA practically the day they announced PIP:-)it has made a huge difference to my potential for recovery -but I didn't get it first time round what at least 10 years ago and I hadn't the fight left in me to appeal, I had just gone through an incapacity appeal ..the state I was in for the hearing the whole board stood and said please take her out take her home lets get this sorted as quickly as possible. My recovery took a long time more precious life time lost, the debt situation and mortgage were in deep shit.. as benefit was cut during the appeal process etc etc..Yeah I had reached next part of the disability curve I must make the most of what time I have:-) --- them I will do it whatever..perhaps that attitude saved me at the time but if I had got the extra financial help from DLA at that time I could have got the private rehab and support I needed I would I am sure have been back at work in some capacity, and my life could have been so different .
      So as someone with hindsight of what not getting the benefit right at the right time in right way and the deleterious effect it had on me and my life chances ..this fast push em through doesn’t matter too much if we get it wrong is such a false economy. It is a waste of us..I have lost years , years when I could have contributed some form..and don’t doubt that I wanted to.

    6. part 4 oops!
      So now I face the benefit lottery again, I finally feel I have a beginning of an understanding of my cognitive problems..this has taken me hours to write but slow but steady on clear hours of functioning I can now sometimes do it..I couldn’t read or write or barely speak after my first stroke, I’ve beaten all odds on that and I utterly believe in plasticity and abilty of my brain to continue to recover not just platow as some think. I have a possible diagnosis for my Mental Health I ‘just’ have to continue the fight to find the treatment privately my GP doesn’t think that I should expect the expertise I need to be available in my neck of the woods…
      For me personally I want the decision to be fair, to be believed that I need time to get to the place where I can be of use and that I will do that.
      What I dread is a medical with someone with no understanding of my condition. I dread the thought of possibility it could all go wrong and I face an appeal process with months of stress that will involve.
      What I dread most is that if that scenario happens then I will be shoved back into system for a new form to be spewed out again and process to start all over again..That would destroy me totally I have been through too much already and I doubt that I would survive that.
      So in addtion to putting my vote for the improved slower assessment process I would politely like to request that we could be kept better informed of where we are in the process not just left for weeks in the dark - a standard email or text would suffice as we move through the stages.
      I would like a system where if a decision is unclear that the assessee can be asked to supply further evidence medical or otherwise to clarify the situation rather than more easily just be turned down for a group and have to go through appeal process.
      I would like it clarified when you receive a decision how long that is valid for ..for me personally knowing when I next face assessment and duration of that process makes radical difference to planning rehab/therapy and stabilising myself.
      I feel in its present style and approach the process and the system are more likely to inhibit people to want to move through the groups to a positive outcome for themselves and society. For me sadly it may be that voluntary work may be best I can hope for but I would like that to be valued and accepted of value as a contribution. Yipee yippee if it is more.x

  12. I just watched the debate and have to say I'm so sick and tired of hearing "what the last government left us" and "what we inherited from the last government"; don't you think it's time you took some responsibility and got on with it instead of crying all the time! McVey you are clearly out of your element, you need to call it a day.

    Sue, keep it up we are with you, we are Spartacus. The government are afraid of meeting with Spartacus because they know they are wrong and that we will wipe the floor with them.

    IDS, Hoban we will not go away, we will get stronger and become more and more in number. We are the people you are killing and putting in danger, we are professionals and knowledgeable about illness and disabilities way beyond what you can try to imagine.

  13. I think the statement is most probably spot on. And the description by CelticPonderer of the ATOS letter is particularly disturbing. How can they not have any understanding, at all, of how their practices are affecting people? And yet they continue to make profits out of public funds. It is both infuriating and scary.

  14. it must be remembered when labour first muted welfare reform it had nothing whatever to do with disability.The Idea was to take on a culture in some parts of the country where there had been no working adult family member for 2 or 3 generations that was the raison detre.
    Granted they made a huge error in appointing Atos something to which they hold up their hands.However it was not until the bullingdon boys wangled their way into power that the accent changed no more were they seeking to change the culture i describedBUT instead turned their sights upon a much easier target the physically and mentally disabled much less likely to fight back and an excellent opportunity to demonize a section of society as dwp sent out stories to broadcasters not all of them true which raised the hackles of right-thinking benefit and non benefit claimant ever since the right -wing numpties have called open season on the nation's most vulnerable it is a national disgracethe govt. have had nearly thre years to rectify the problems with Atos instead they have presided over a widening and hardening of the nation's atitude to genuine benefit claimantsNOW IT'S NOT JUST THE NHS UNDER UN PRECEDENTED THREAT BUT THE WHOLE HARD WONAND UTTERLY DESIRABLE WELFARE SYSTEM

    1. "The Idea was to take on a culture in some parts of the country where there had been no working adult family member for 2 or 3 generations that was the raison detre."

      The idea of multi-generational non-working families is a COMPLETE MYTH, a HUGE BUCKET OF BULL. There are no such families. They do not exist. This was extensively researched by the Channel 4 Fact Checker, and by the Guardian. They could not find a single example. (The most you could say is that for some families, family members were in and out of work as a permanent feature of their lives.)

      This government is intent on setting one disadvantaged group against another, cynically deploying nasty lies and sheer propaganda whenever they see fit, all in aid of destroying the welfare state so that they and their rich friends can go on getting richer while the rest of us just curl up and die.

    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      By "bullingdonmorons"
      (comment in a blog post in The Guardian 21/03/2013)

      Probably the most disgusting thing about this coalition has been their propaganda war against the most disadvantaged people in society. By the deliberate spreading of lies, they have facilitated a systematic assault upon the poor, the sick and the disabled. And they have knowingly misled the public for one simple reason, to enable them to totally dismantle the welfare state.

      There are lies, damned lies, and then there are lying Tory bastards.

      It may be utterly repugnant to hear millionaire politicians who have never worked a day in their life telling us that they are ending the 'something for nothing culture', but it's also utter bollocks. Only 2.5% of the total welfare budget of £200 billion actually goes on unemployment, whilst the vast majority of unemployed claimants have worked, and paid taxes, for years and are now on benefits due to redundancy, sickness, disability or having to care for someone. Millions more are receiving benefits due to poverty wages. The Welfare state is actually a massive state subsidy to business which enables it to pay poverty wages and charge exorbitant rents.

      Only 0.1% of benefit claimants who have claimed for 10 years or more are actually unemployed. Less than 5,000 people, out of over 9 million 16-64 year olds who don't work, have been on Job Seekers Allowance for more than 5 years. Less than 0.1% of the 20 million working age households have 2 generations that have never had a permanent job. Despite strenuous efforts, researchers have been unable to find any families where three generations have never worked.

      In 1971, JSA equalled 20.9% of the average wage. Today, it is worth 10.9%. These people are living in poverty. There are 8.5 million people receiving benefits in this country. There are more people IN WORK who get benefits than not working. The majority of all housing benefit claimants are IN WORK. 6.1 million people classed as living in poverty are from households IN WORK.

      Our newspapers continuously bombard us with these stories. There are around five million claimants of Housing Benefit; of which there were five families who received over £100,000 per year, all living in central London. The average award of Housing Benefit is approximately £85 a week. Only 3% of families received more than £10,000 a year support, and 0.04% received more than £30,000 a year. And no-one ever mentions that housing benefit goes straight to the Landlord and not the claimant.

      And those large families screwing the taxpayer? There are around 130 families with 10 children and only 10 families with 12 children IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY who are on benefits.

      So who is really bankrupting the country? Well, the richest 1,000 people now possess £414 billion between them, a sum more than three times the size of the entire UK budget deficit. The richest 1% of the population are estimated to possess wealth of about £1 trillion. The richest 10% control wealth of about £4 trillion. The Quantitative Easing programme has increased the personal wealth of the UK’s richest 20% by enough to pay for Job Seeker’s Allowance for the next 100 years.

      The people of this country are being shafted, but instead of the blame being directed at the real culprits, the rich, it is being aimed at the most vulnerable, the poor, with our own Government shamelessly leading the way.

  15. this government last government is all bull. The main object and it surely must be crystal clear by now as we have been going over it every day for the past couple of years and will continue to do so over the next couple of years is that the government doesn't care for the sick and disabled and as soon as they've all passed away the better

    hence so few mp's in attendance. the main problem the government have got is that some of us are still living albeit only a few like myself struggling on day by day and that cause the government great upset as despite all the pressure there putting on us were still alive

    and that's the battleground in going forward it's either the sick and disabled die quickly or IDS gets the sack and for the life of me i cant see any alternative it has to be one or the other unless I'm missing something ?

    as for the government meeting spartacus that ain't going to happen as far to many people have died going through the welfare reform bill and that has to kept swept under the carpet at all times

    the Australian prime minister Julia Gillard apologises to Australian mothers for forced adoptions and in years to come the prime minister of the day will be saying that he or she too is sorry for the premature deaths that occurred of the sick and disabled during the welfare reform process from the years 2008/2015 and maybe beyond ?

  16. Indeed, McVey, on behalf of the DWP made a politically desperate statement too. It was the only thing they could come up with.
    I can't remember when I first found Spartacus, but what set the group apart was the professionalism of the reports, methodically and meticulously researched which are factual and evidence based. They are evidence based, factual and truthful. They are the quality impact assessments that have not been written by the DWP.
    This is why the ministers will not meet with Spartacus, who know their subject and do not have to rely on rapidly concocted subterfuge to fudge their way through meetings and debates. They do not depart from the truth.
    I doubt if any one of the ministers could hold their own against a delegation from Spartacus without commiting an enormous gaff or two.
    They are frightened not of a group of campaigning activists but of what is now growing into a social movement.
    It's far to late to nip Spartacus in the bud.

    1. I watched McVey's performance and thought it quite good. She had only one thing to say to the point, and that was that the DWP's feelings had been hurt and they weren't going to talk to someone who was nasty to them.

      She managed to blether about ancient history and "Who thought ESA up first anyway?" and a number of other standard lines you produce when you have nothing to say that is useful or sensible.

      She did that at sufficient length that the Adjournment Debate ran out of time, without the issue having troubled her bosses or her civil servants or her backbenchers. She probably got a silver star for that (not a gold one, it wasn't that difficult).

      Thanks anyway to Michael Meacher for trying and for getting the issue read into the Parliamentary record.

  17. Have just watched the recording of the Adjournement Debate. It's actually quite impressive how long Esther McVey can spend not answering a direct question. I'm not sure she could have embarassed herself more.

    1. I think David Cameron has been giving lessons to his Front Bench in how not to answer a direct question with a direct answer! I'm totally astounded that she was ever a TV presenter as she has problems stringing sentences together & when she finally does they're full of erm-ing and ah-ing.

  18. Its quite amazing to see the sense of entitlement that people on benefits have? They say 'what if they stop my money?' If you have never contributed how can it be 'your' money? So correct your terminology please.

    Instead of thinking how can I sort MY situation out the automatic knee jerk response is to look for another benefit to claim!! Why not think about getting a job?!! Yes it must be devastating to contemplate the idea of work when getting money for nothing is easier right?

    Also people on benefits moan about energy bills etc. Why? Dont people in work have energy bills too? Why is it any different for them?

    At the moment work doesnt pay thats why so many millions choose a life on welfare. Benefits should never be a lifestyle choice but in the UK it is for millions of families. I dont count people working 1 day finding its not for them and then going back 'on the sick' as evidence to say their household is not a workless household Danny. Sorry.

    If the best you can come up with to keep the welfare system as it is is to maintain the alcohol and tobacco industry in good spirits then this country is finished if not already. Why are countries like brazil flourishing etc?? No welfare simple. You dont work there your problem, noone will give you the time of the day.

    Fact: In the UK work doesnt pay, not yet. HMG needs to slash welfare to make work pay. If as as the minute you can get a rent free property that a working family could never afford plus spending money who is going to work? Noone that is why the sad truth the majority of the population in the UK dont work with millions claiming dubious benefits. A sad pathetic state of the nation where someone that works cant afford to live but then those that dont flourish in idleness.

    Another focus group highlighted the top benefit conditions

    1. Fibromyalgia
    2. Depression
    3. Anxiety
    4. Back pain
    5. Diabetes

    What they all got in common? Discount diabetes that is a stable condition and considering many millions are stable with it including olympic athletes how can that be a benefit clincher??

    All the rest are dubious conditions that many doctors doubt are genuine and they are fed up of being forced to sign nonsense sicknotes while the benefit hungry conduct endless appeals. They would rather their time is spent on genuine pathology rather than conditions that seem to have emerged purely as benefit 'earners'.

    What a sorry state GB is in where work doesnt pay. Pathetic. As a lot of economists say the cuts in welfare dont go anywhere near far enough. A good scythe through them would turn the deficit around in no time.

    1. He's done it again! Proved he's not British! Can't even see his mistakes! (It's frustrating that I cannot divulge the techniques of linguistic analysis that I am using, as that would enable this #@!-$£& to redraft his tosh to disguise the truth.) In taking payment for writing his rubbish, he is of course the biggest scrounger here. Get out and do a proper job, I say, like all of us here did, before illness or disability took away our capacity to make that choice.

    2. Wishes for 2nd time tonight there was a like button

    3. Oh and I WISH electronic trolls came back cos THIS is why diabetes can be a "benefit clincher" (Don't worry, It's just pics - shouldn't tax you too much)

    4. Another instance of why I should read all of a blog before posting - the benefit myths I listed above together with (someone else's) splendid demolition job should perhaps have been reserved for this one. Oh well, perhaps that would have been just me encouraging a troll again.

      Incidentally, I too could wish for a Like button sometimes - and can you remove the spam, or is that too not possible?

  19. The DWP are too scared to meet with a delegation from Spartacus in case they are asked 'awkward' questions which they can't answer - that would be most any question I would imagine if Esther McVey is anything to go by.

  20. the Tory government will carry on just like the Syrian government and blame others for the death of it's people as far as both of the governments are concerned we have done nothing wrong it's the others that have done the damage we are innocent of all charges they both say and for legal reasons that's how it's going to stay

  21. You should be ashamed of yourself of Nick. Watch the DEC appeal for Syria then reflect on how that compares to life for yourself? Those on benefits dont know how lucky they are to have a free roof over their head free food free fags etc for contributing nothing to society.

    1. my role has always been and always will be for looking out for the families that have lost a loved one in going through the welfare reform process

      that is all one need do as for your concerns about who should have benefits or not is not for me to judge

      sick and disabled people have died while going through the welfare reform process in large numbers

      the Syrian people have also been killed in large numbers which makes it in my book equal
      as for who has lost more people the sick and disabled or the Syrian people over the past few years i don't know all i do know that it's a close call and am sure someone here will know the true answer

      the bottom line is that in both countries innocent people have died through their governments incompetence and negligence and that's the bottom line and has always been the bottom line and nothing else needs to be said in the matter

      death is death at the end of the day how it comes about from the government is irreverent

    2. "Those on benefits dont know how lucky they are to have a free roof over their head free food free fags etc for contributing nothing to society."

      Will you please explain how my working for years, paying tax and NI, contributed nothing to society? As for my free roof, please pledge to pay me in used 50s the exact sum my roof cost me, and you'll see how free it was.

      What a truly contemptible person you are, spouting your filthy hated that all sick and disabled people are frauds, likening all to the nasty cheat (0.5% of all DLA claims) whom we all oppose, whether they burgle our house or cheat on their benefit. You are far more like this nasty person than any of us here on this forum.

      Or have I made a mistake? Do you in fact believe that sick and disabled people are right to claim their entitlements, and that the cheats you are so fascinated by have nothing at all to do with the good, decent and honest people on this forum?

    3. The troll claims that support for welfare reform has never been higher, however, the opposite is true - that's why the tories have dropped their "skivers v strivers" campaign. It was backfiring on them as they know, except for people like the troll, and what a surprise, there is only one of him which speaks for itself, that people were angry at the rich elitists picking on old, sick and disabled people while at the same time, giving millionaires a massive tax break.

      Thank goodness the vast majority saw through this and do not support this campaign by the govt to murder easy-targets like the sick and disabled.

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  23. One can only wonder why the Troll seeks to obfuscate their identity.

  24. Nick again you should be ashamed. Have you ever been to Syria? Millions live in refugee camps at the minute there with basic disease rampant. Dont see any evidence of fags, booze, sky and benefits there and people complaining their handout isnt big enough like here. If you think Syria is no different why dont you go and live there and lets see how long you last knowing there is no guaranteed sum of cash to hit your bank account every fortnight!!

    As for you Danny that housing association in Manchester got it spot on. So to afford the benefit changes you may have to downgrade your sky package or not go to bingo so much or maybe drink a bit less every week. Oh can you see the hearts of working people literally haemorrhaging as we speak huh??

    Taxpayers alliance have said around 3 million have NEVER worked. That in itself is a scandal. There are millions more that tried work found welfare paid more and thought why bother? Can you blame them.

    Are these the people you campaign for?

    Yes technically its not fraud so wont come under the fraud figures but its a downright disgrace if benefits are so generous they fund a lifestyle of fags and booze or you think this is ok?? Thats the point there are millions like this person. It may not be fraud but it justifies the anger that working people currently have. Likely Danny you will generate some socialist spin to say this is ok. You may hate millionaires but just remember they got there by hard work and graft not by holding their hand in the 'i want more position'. End of the day they will leave the country so will pay the tax then to fund your existence then??

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    2. i happen to be a muslim and yes i have travelled in my younger years all round the middle east and by and large their great people as prince Charles has found out over the past few years

      Their government's thou are like ours in the uk very deceptive at best and will destroy you if you try to interfere they also don't like the sick and disabled so that's one thing both countries have in common

      they don't have a benefit system and without a decent leader they have always found life very tough however their very decent people and i would rather live with them then be a neighbour of IDS and co any day of the week

    3. @7b263c00-90a3

      "I am not a free man! I am a number!"

      You did not answer my question a few weeks ago, and you have not answered the same question now. So I ask again:

      Do you in fact believe that sick and disabled people are right to claim their entitlements, and that the cheats you are so fascinated by have nothing at all to do with the good, decent and honest people on this forum?

  25. "they got there by hard work" what a myth that is! Most millionaires, like Osborne, were born to it and have never done a days hard graft in their lives!

  26. It seems the truth hurts! This government created this mess and
    they are like 'the medical commission the Nazis used in the second world war to play down wounds so that soldiers could be reclassified ‘fit for the Eastern front".
    So...if the hat fits wear it!

  27. The response to this is absolutely brilliant:

    The last line which basically is an invitation for McVey to speak with the professor in a "constructive" manner is a definite touch.

  28. I'm assuming they spent ages going through the report until they found some excuse not to see Spartacus. We mustn't give up - we've got them rattled!