This is not so good Prof Carol Black says an independent assessment service would enable more people on long-term sickness to return to work http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15801515
when are the charities going to take them to court? sort of fizzeled out dont ya think. i want, no we all want action now not why this in human process is being carried out
Which charities the one who backed labour welfare reforms when they thought they could make money out of it getting us back to work, charities are used loosely these days.
I remember a number of high ranking disability charities agreeing with the welfare reforms saying people should work, and we can help them into work, once the private firms were used and they got nothing they came back saying they would fight it.
You did very well you were articulate and kept cool under fire, but the show was fixed as is usual on the BBC nowadays. The anti-welfare people were given prominence and the most amount of time to spew their lies and bullshit.
Nice sue you did well as for these so called charities they dont exist and never have ever played the role that they should be playing Wherever you are in the world they are all talk and never get to the heart of the matter and that's to provide a protective insulation for those who they purport to serve
sue you did a good job . the bbc had a great night on friday 26.3 mil well done two them for that .but what happens when the children get older and have to go on the sick . will beeb call them scum and lazy.what about the 3.4million in poverty thay kept on showing that on the big screen and said what could be done two get them out of it .i would say ask the cons and lib dems .and not cut disabled tax credits for them .i just had thought cambo has got a plan to get rid of disabled by starting world war three with the germans just like the late 1930 and put them in the first line and when we are dead end it problem solved
How about this one now, no benefits rises for the forthcoming years, this would allow the coalition to cut petrol duty......best to help the motorist then people on benefits.. work shy
Regarding the comment about 1 in 10 being sick, the trouble is that people tend not to keep in touch with those who become ill and forget about them OR don't know that they have become sick.
Taking me as an example, only 1 of my school friends is still in touch. Only a few undergraduate student friends did and they have no idea how far my illness progressed, as witnessed by a recent Facebook message asking how my research was going. I am sure others remember me, but I bet they don't realise I am now too ill to work. Some of my PhD friends are still in touch but ditto for the rest.
As for myself and how I remember other people, I discovered recently that of my own PhD acquaintances I had not kept in close contact with, 2 had died from cancer and a third one had developed MS and no longer worked. I had had no idea of this. Rather selfishly I was labouring under the delusion I was the only ill person in the world! It came as a bit of a shock to the system and a timely reminder that illness and disability can and does hit anyone, including people you remember as fit and well.
1 in 10 people? No, that doesn't surprise me one bit.
anonymous 22.13 - I'm working on a post re scrounger rhetoric and public opinion. Will probably use your image of all the poorly little children-in-need who grow up to be lazy, workshy scroungers (if you don't mind?)
I love Carol Black's assertion that once people are given a sick note they think they are sick! And then they "can't tell" if they are well enough to go back to work! I'm pretty sure if I woke up cured one morning, I'd notice and wouldn't need a psychic from atos to tell me.
Mind you, i'm gobsmacked by the number of people in work who think this is a good idea. They can't see this could be them tomorrow. It is just another attack on hard won worker's rights. First, the employers right to sack people without recourse to an unfair dismissal tribunal has been changed and now the right to sack you if you don't go back to work when atos tells you to. How long before the minimum wage is abolished?
Yes, good interview; you gave a balanced argument.
The trouble with the general public's opinion about disabled people that they consider not to be, is that they don't understand the nature of disability.
For example, when I'm 'usual ill', I might be able to cope with a 2 hour visit to the pub on a Friday, perhaps going out for lunch on another day or I might get my cushion out, and sit on the grass and shuffle around to do 10 minutes of weeding. To enable me to do anything physical however, I have to fill myself full of pain killers, and after going out or doing a little job in the garden or house, I'll be very ill for the next 2-3 days. So they see me out and about and consider that since I can do that, I am capable of working.
I haven't been anywhere for the last two weeks, and before that there was another two weeks where I was unable to go out. I have perhaps been out for lunch on 3 times in the last 3 months. Even a trip to the doctors in a taxi - so I'm literally going 'door to door' - can incapacitate me for the rest of the week. I finally did some washing up yesterday; I had not done so since last Tuesday. Even then, I had to lean on the sink to do so, and I was exhausted and in pain afterwards.
No, people don't realise that most of the week I struggle terribly with mobility, especially since my muscles are now so weak that they are not supporting the ligaments and joints, so every day the ligaments crack out of place in my knees, ankles and other places. This can suddenly make it almost impossible to walk.
I don't think people also realise how hard it is to claim disability benefits. I fought for 9 years to claim anything. Fortunately, social services stepped in with regard to my case when I turned to them and asked to be put in a home. They assessed me, and their evidence was more convincing than my G.P.s, since they concluded that I needed a lot of home care.
I don't think however, that G.P.s sign people off sick 'willy nilly' at all as I have had some terrible times with G.P.s in that regard and I know other people who have had similar experiences. G.P.s are highly intellectual and independent people, and will not be swayed just by 'subjective' statements from their patients.
In fact the ATOS assessments are based on just as subjective statements. For example, the 'healthcare professiona' asked me if I could walk a certain distance, and I said 'no'. So, I scored the points straight away that would ensure I was placed in the support group. But, how did that healthcare professional know if I was telling the truth or not about that and the many other questions?
This idea of independent assessments is ludicrous. It will cost more money, money which no doubt a private company will receive: I don't think any of us will be surprised if that company turns out to be ATOS!
clarebelz
I was so desperate at that point that I wanted to just die, and as we know,
sue i hope you did not think i was haveing a go at the disabled . has i am disabled myself and hate bbc cameron and the rest of them.i just think the bbc cant have it both ways children in need and putting the disabled down the way thay do that was my point .i i read your blog all the time i think you are great and we need peaple like you to fight for the disabled .sorry if you thought that
sorry sue read it wrong i thought i had upset you .yes you can use it .i post a lot lately did you read my post about cambo and how to get rid of the disabled if he starts a war with the germans and use us has canon foder
Lets be clear if you were to run a poll for the people of the uk to decide the fate of the sick and disabled you would find that the poll would swing in favour of the governments view by about 75% and that's the reason why as a group we are struggling and as i expected with pat's on line petition she to is struggling to get her 100000 signatures and regret to say as i first thought isn't going to make it
How come ? Well the bottom line is the public don't care about us and it looks like we don't care either as a group of one million
Pat's petition should have made at least 25000 signatures by now but as i have said before sick people by their very nature don't or cant get involved and for many reasons it's not black and white but we will have to press on regardless because if we go down it wont be one or two people it will all of us together
That is what David Cameron meant when he said we are all in it together he was referring to the sick and disabled and that is how i took it
the majority of the people in the uk thought he meant everyone
sure the cuts are widespread but his emphasis was on the sick and disabled
hi fourbanks hope my spelling is better pat's petition just short of 5000 last time i looked i keep hopeing that its 10000 or more by now but it will take time .if it was to kick us out of the uk it would be 20 million by know and counting .you a right the public don't care and the beeb and news would behind the one to kick us out
great radio! :)
ReplyDeleteThis is not so good
Prof Carol Black says an independent assessment service would enable more people on long-term sickness to return to work
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15801515
Great interview Sue.
ReplyDeleteI also see the church has taken up our cause, took enough time though.
when are the charities going to take them to court? sort of fizzeled out dont ya think. i want, no we all want action now not why this in human process is being carried out
ReplyDeleteWhich charities the one who backed labour welfare reforms when they thought they could make money out of it getting us back to work, charities are used loosely these days.
ReplyDeleteI remember a number of high ranking disability charities agreeing with the welfare reforms saying people should work, and we can help them into work, once the private firms were used and they got nothing they came back saying they would fight it.
You did very well you were articulate and kept cool under fire, but the show was fixed as is usual on the BBC nowadays. The anti-welfare people were given prominence and the most amount of time to spew their lies and bullshit.
ReplyDeleteNice sue you did well
ReplyDeleteas for these so called charities they dont exist and never have ever played the role that they should be playing
Wherever you are in the world they are all talk and never get to the heart of the matter and that's to provide a protective insulation for those who they purport to serve
Good show Sue. It's just a shame you had a presenter who, as far as I could tell, gave you nothing approaching equal airtime.
ReplyDeleteOh, did you think George? I thought it was quite fair. I actually thought the presenter seemed secretly on our side.
ReplyDeleteHow are you George? I saw a couple of your blog posts, but been moving so a bit out of loop. Liked your caption on LDV ;)
sue you did a good job . the bbc had a great night on friday 26.3 mil well done two them for that .but what happens when the children get older and have to go on the sick . will beeb call them scum and lazy.what about the 3.4million in poverty thay kept on showing that on the big screen and said what could be done two get them out of it .i would say ask the cons and lib dems .and not cut disabled tax credits for them .i just had thought cambo has got a plan to get rid of disabled by starting world war three with the germans just like the late 1930 and put them in the first line and when we are dead end it problem solved
ReplyDeleteHow about this one now, no benefits rises for the forthcoming years, this would allow the coalition to cut petrol duty......best to help the motorist then people on benefits.. work shy
ReplyDeleteRegarding the comment about 1 in 10 being sick, the trouble is that people tend not to keep in touch with those who become ill and forget about them OR don't know that they have become sick.
ReplyDeleteTaking me as an example, only 1 of my school friends is still in touch. Only a few undergraduate student friends did and they have no idea how far my illness progressed, as witnessed by a recent Facebook message asking how my research was going. I am sure others remember me, but I bet they don't realise I am now too ill to work. Some of my PhD friends are still in touch but ditto for the rest.
As for myself and how I remember other people, I discovered recently that of my own PhD acquaintances I had not kept in close contact with, 2 had died from cancer and a third one had developed MS and no longer worked. I had had no idea of this. Rather selfishly I was labouring under the delusion I was the only ill person in the world! It came as a bit of a shock to the system and a timely reminder that illness and disability can and does hit anyone, including people you remember as fit and well.
1 in 10 people? No, that doesn't surprise me one bit.
Good one sue ?
ReplyDeleteanonymous 22.13 - I'm working on a post re scrounger rhetoric and public opinion. Will probably use your image of all the poorly little children-in-need who grow up to be lazy, workshy scroungers (if you don't mind?)
ReplyDeleteWell done Sue. Keep fighting , we need you!
ReplyDeleteI love Carol Black's assertion that once people are given a sick note they think they are sick!
And then they "can't tell" if they are well enough to go back to work! I'm pretty sure if I woke up cured one morning, I'd notice and wouldn't need a psychic from atos to tell me.
Mind you, i'm gobsmacked by the number of people in work who think this is a good idea. They can't see this could be them tomorrow. It is just another attack on hard won worker's rights. First, the employers right to sack people without recourse to an unfair dismissal tribunal has been changed and now the right to sack you if you don't go back to work when atos tells you to. How long before the minimum wage is abolished?
Yes, good interview; you gave a balanced argument.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble with the general public's opinion about disabled people that they consider not to be, is that they don't understand the nature of disability.
For example, when I'm 'usual ill', I might be able to cope with a 2 hour visit to the pub on a Friday, perhaps going out for lunch on another day or I might get my cushion out, and sit on the grass and shuffle around to do 10 minutes of weeding. To enable me to do anything physical however, I have to fill myself full of pain killers, and after going out or doing a little job in the garden or house, I'll be very ill for the next 2-3 days. So they see me out and about and consider that since I can do that, I am capable of working.
I haven't been anywhere for the last two weeks, and before that there was another two weeks where I was unable to go out. I have perhaps been out for lunch on 3 times in the last 3 months. Even a trip to the doctors in a taxi - so I'm literally going 'door to door' - can incapacitate me for the rest of the week. I finally did some washing up yesterday; I had not done so since last Tuesday. Even then, I had to lean on the sink to do so, and I was exhausted and in pain afterwards.
No, people don't realise that most of the week I struggle terribly with mobility, especially since my muscles are now so weak that they are not supporting the ligaments and joints, so every day the ligaments crack out of place in my knees, ankles and other places. This can suddenly make it almost impossible to walk.
I don't think people also realise how hard it is to claim disability benefits. I fought for 9 years to claim anything. Fortunately, social services stepped in with regard to my case when I turned to them and asked to be put in a home. They assessed me, and their evidence was more convincing than my G.P.s, since they concluded that I needed a lot of home care.
I don't think however, that G.P.s sign people off sick 'willy nilly' at all as I have had some terrible times with G.P.s in that regard and I know other people who have had similar experiences. G.P.s are highly intellectual and independent people, and will not be swayed just by 'subjective' statements from their patients.
In fact the ATOS assessments are based on just as subjective statements. For example, the 'healthcare professiona' asked me if I could walk a certain distance, and I said 'no'. So, I scored the points straight away that would ensure I was placed in the support group. But, how did that healthcare professional know if I was telling the truth or not about that and the many other questions?
This idea of independent assessments is ludicrous. It will cost more money, money which no doubt a private company will receive: I don't think any of us will be surprised if that company turns out to be ATOS!
clarebelz
I was so desperate at that point that I wanted to just die, and as we know,
sue i hope you did not think i was haveing a go at the disabled . has i am disabled myself and hate bbc cameron and the rest of them.i just think the bbc cant have it both ways children in need and putting the disabled down the way thay do that was my point .i i read your blog all the time i think you are great and we need peaple like you to fight for the disabled .sorry if you thought that
ReplyDeletesorry sue read it wrong i thought i had upset you .yes you can use it .i post a lot lately did you read my post about cambo and how to get rid of the disabled if he starts a war with the germans and use us has canon foder
ReplyDeleteLets be clear if you were to run a poll for the people of the uk to decide the fate of the sick and disabled you would find that the poll would swing in favour of the governments view by about 75% and that's the reason why as a group we are struggling and as i expected with pat's on line petition she to is struggling to get her 100000 signatures and regret to say as i first thought isn't going to make it
ReplyDeleteHow come ? Well the bottom line is the public don't care about us and it looks like we don't care either as a group of one million
Pat's petition should have made at least 25000 signatures by now but as i have said before sick people by their very nature don't or cant get involved and for many reasons it's not black and white but we will have to press on regardless because if we go down it wont be one or two people it will all of us together
That is what David Cameron meant when he said we are all in it together he was referring to the sick and disabled and that is how i took it
the majority of the people in the uk thought he meant everyone
sure the cuts are widespread but his emphasis was on the sick and disabled
hi fourbanks hope my spelling is better pat's petition just short of 5000 last time i looked i keep hopeing that its 10000 or more by now but it will take time .if it was to kick us out of the uk it would be 20 million by know and counting .you a right the public don't care and the beeb and news would behind the one to kick us out
ReplyDeleteFourbanks - The only petitions that get 100,000 thousand signatures quickly are funded ones or ones with enormous public popular support.
ReplyDelete5000 signatures in just over a week is very fast. At this rate we will have our signatures in 6 months.
Even if you feel despondent, please don't be too pessimistic, this is a hopeful place.
Sorry sue yes i must be more hopeful i do feel helpless however
ReplyDeletePoliticians and Government that Do Not Listen
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